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Home > Dermal Fusion

 

 

 

 

 

Read Spencer Kobren's thoughts on the conversation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dermal Fusion... Real or Hoax?

 

6.25.01 Conversation with Ryan Livingston from Dermal Fusion -

After a month of playing phone tag, I was finally able to speak with the man who claims to be Ryan Livingston, the inventor of a process that he claims will put an end to hair loss as we know it… As most of you know, the name of this process is dermal fusion. In our hour long conversation I asked him some very specific questions in order to try and make sense of all of this. Please keep in mind that as all of you, I was very excited and hopeful that dermal fusion would put an end to this nightmare we call hair loss. This is what I found out...

 

The following questions were asked to him over the course of the conversation in no particular order, also the answers are not verbatim, as our conversation was not set up as an interview.

 

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Kobren: Are you a physician or a Ph.D. (researcher), or do you have any medical background?

 

Livingston: No

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Kobren: Would you consider yourself an entrepreneur/inventor?

 

Livingston: Yes, that's exactly what I am

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Kobren: Do you suffer with hair loss yourself?

 

Livingston: No

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Kobren: So what made you interested in hair loss and it's cure?

 

Livingston: 6 years ago, I came across an advertisement promoting a medical procedure that would end baldness. I found this very intriguing and ordered the information/ video tape. It ended up being the Fleming Mayer flap. I saw how huge this market was and decided to get involved for purely financial reasons.

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Kobren: In what capacity did you plan on getting involved?

 

Livingston: I developed 2 processes of hair replacement, one non-surgical and one surgical, both of which will not being coming to market since I developed dermal fusion.

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Kobren: How did you develop dermal fusion?

 

Livingston: I can't disclose that information at this time.

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Kobren: How were you able to develop the holy grail of hair loss without any medical background whatsoever?

 

Livingston: I have friends who are doctors.

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Kobren: On the website Hairsite.com there was an article posted several months ago by a man claiming that his wife read about your work in a newspaper, but was unable to recall the name of the newspaper. The article was quite detailed, even recalling the names of some of the equipment being used in your process, however, this woman could not remember the name of the paper she read this article in. Has your work ever been written about in any capacity?

 

Livingston: No it has not

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Kobren: Are you familiar with a poster on Hairsite.com who goes by the "handle" Infiltrator or The Infiltrator?

 

Livingston: No

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Kobren: Have you ever yourself posted on Hairsite.com?

 

Livingston: No

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Kobren: Are you familiar with a poster on hairsite.com who claims to be writing a book on hair loss scams?

 

Livingston: No

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Kobren: Have you given anyone "exclusivity" in any capacity to the right to tell your story, to discuss your work, or to discuss the implications of your work in print, on television or in any other form of media?

 

Livingston: Absolutely Not.

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Kobren: Have you spoken to anyone in the media, besides myself, in such great detail about your work?

 

Livingston: No

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Kobren: Has anyone else contacted you from the media about your work?

 

Livingston: Yes, every major magazine, newspaper, and news organization has contacted me.

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Kobren: Again, have you given any information to any of these organization or anyone else who has contacted you?

 

Livingston: Only limited information.

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Kobren: Is Ryan Livingston your real name?

 

Livingston: Yes

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Kobren: What is your connection with the Selkirk hair clinic?

 

Livingston: Purely financial. They will be performing dermal fusion, and "I will be making money from the procedure, not performing it."

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Kobren: So are you no longer working directly with the Selkirk clinic?

 

Livingston: No, I am no longer working directly with Selkirk hair clinic, however, I will be deriving income directly from the clinic.

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Kobren: What is the dermal fusion process?

 

Livingston: Dermal Fusion is "the cure for baldness." I have developed a technique that is basically what we know as "hair multiplication." We were able to take microscopic biopsies of hair and surrounding scalp without drawing any blood, or leaving any scars. We then let these follicles and cells multiply by placing them in an incubation type chamber. Only the strongest cells survive, which can then be placed into the scalp using a special "pipette" device that causes absolutely no trauma to the scalp. The hair begins to grow immediately, without the traditional resting phase of a hair transplant.

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Kobren: On the Selkirk clinic's website you make the claims that you can achieve the density of 250 hairs per square centimeter. How is this possible?

 

Livingston: My process places hairs or "cells" directly into the "receptor sites" using a device the size of an 18 gauge hypodermic needle.

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Kobren: How many patients have you tested this procedure on?

 

Livingston: I am not at liberty to say.

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Kobren: Why aren't you "at liberty" to say?

 

Livingston: "Because I'm Not"

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Kobren: Can you be more specific?

 

Livingston: I am not at liberty to be more specific. For legal reasons I cannot tell you how many patients, but we have tested dermal fusion on several humans.

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Kobren: Does your procedure work for women with androgenetic alopecia?

 

Livingston: Yes, the procedure works for anyone who has genetic hair loss.

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Kobren: Are you saying that it works even in women with diffuse hair loss, which of course is the most common time of androgenetic alopecia found in females?

 

Livingston: Actually diffuse hair loss is not genetic hair loss. Genetic hair loss is the same kind of hair loss found in men, not usually diffuse.

 

[ At this point in the conversation I had to explain to Mr. Livingston that the most common form of androgenetic alopecia in females is seen in the form of diffuse hair loss, where the female generally keeps the basic integrity of the hairline and looses hair throughout the entire scalp, including most of the "so called" permanent zone.

Which would be the area where the hairs are taken from for hair multiplication. After explaining this to Mr. Livingston he became quite adversarial, chuckled, and then asked me if I was a hair restoration expert like he is. I calmly explained to him that I am the author of two books on hair loss, one being specifically for women, and that I have a great deal of knowledge about this field. I also explained to him that at this point he has proved nothing to me and cannot even provide me with the most modest of credentials. He eventually explained that women would need a few DHT resistant hair follicles which would be "genetically superior." He believes these follicles can be found in most women suffering with hair loss. ]

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Kobren: Why have you chosen Canada to launch dermal fusion?

 

Livingston: Because Canada has such stringent guidelines for approval of any medications or technology, I thought that it would be prudent to start there in order to make it easier for us to distribute and perform this technology world wide.

 

(Mr. Livingston also told me that the Canadian flag on this website played a very important role in the marketing of dermal fusion... he wouldn't explain what he meant by that.)

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Kobren: Why did the Selkirk Clinic decide to put up such a simplistic website?

 

Livingston: I had direct involvement in developing the website. I thought that it was best to start simply, without too many graphics, so that people world wide would be able to download the website quickly. People in all parts of the world do not have the same technical capabilities as most individuals in the US and Canada (referring to modems)

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Kobren: Why has the website been taken down, just to be put back up again with different information that it originally had. Price per hair went from $8 to $2 in just one day. Why were these changes made?

 

Livingston: I can't answer that at this time

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Kobren: How did you come up with your pricing?

 

Livingston: I can't disclose that at this time.

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Kobren: Can you give me any specifics about Dermal Fusion?

 

Livingston: What I can tell you is this, that getting through the legal process to bring this to market is even more difficult than developing dermal fusion itself.

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Kobren: Again, can you give me any specifics about dermal fusion itself?

 

Livingston: Like I said, Dermal Fusion is real and it will effectively end common baldness.

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Kobren: What prompted you to take the time to call me back as opposed to speaking with anyone else?

 

Livingston: Well you repeatedly threatened me by saying that you will expose dermal fusion as a hoax if I refused to contact you. I thought by calling you it would prove that dermal fusion is real and that I am real.

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Kobren: At this point Ryan, the only evidence that I have, is that I am speaking with a person calling me from a blocked ID, who claims to be Ryan Livingston, the inventor of a process that will end hair loss, called dermal fusion. All I have right now is the word of a voice on the other end of the telephone, claiming that this process is real, but also refuses to provide me with any substantial evidence.

 

Livingston: I think the fact that I called you should speak for itself.

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Kobren: I'll tell you what would speak for itself...tangible proof. Let me see some patients. Let me see dermal fusion being performed. Let me speak with patients who have had the procedure. Let me meet with the researchers you are working with. I will fly anywhere in the world at my expense to meet with and speak with anyone involved with dermal fusion. Let me see your before and after photos, and then let me meet with those patients whose photos you have shown me.

 

Livingston: So if I provide you with the photos that would be your proof?

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Kobren: Actually No, it would be a good start however. This hair loss industry has been notorious for doctoring before and after photos, however, it would prove to me that you have photos. Why don't you describe the photos to me.

 

Livingston: (now pissed off) Well we have three photographs of each patient. The first photograph showing the bald patient "with a frown to show his unhappiness." The second photo is the same patient with a full head of hair, and the third picture is the patient holding his hair back to reveal his newly placed hair line.

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Kobren: Another thing that concerns me Ryan, is that you refuse to give me a direct contact number. I told you several times that any of the information you provide me will remain strictly confidential until you give me permission to reveal what we have discussed. I definitely not jeopardize your trust by giving out your personal contact information.

(I did ask him if I could provide the public with the details of our phone conversation.)

 

Livingston: I am very concerned about my privacy, my family's home has been inundated with letters and phone calls. I am just not interested in dealing with that.

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Kobren: I can appreciate that, but I am sure you can understand that this cloak and dagger attitude makes you very suspect and I would feel much more comfortable if you could provide me with a contact number.

 

Livingston: Okay, I am going to be at my country home this summer, how about this, since I am not going to disclose any more information than I already have, then I see no reason for you to need a contact number. But if you need to get in touch with me, and it is truly an emergency of sorts, you can contact me though my personal e-mail address, and I will consider giving you my phone number.

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Kobren: Okay Ryan, how bout this, you think about it and you contact me with your phone number. I doubt that I will have any emergency that I will need to contact you about.

 

Livingston: Okay I will think about it. I do think what you are doing is admirable and I will be in touch.

 

 

 

 

 

Spencer Kobren's thoughts on the whole conversation and his impression of Ryan Livingston.

 

The information provided above are the basic questions and answers that many of you have requested that I ask Ryan Livingston. The rest of the information will be provided in the text below.

 

After several communications via e-mail, and voicemail I finally spoke to the man who claims to be Ryan Livingston inventor/ entrepreneur and "creator" of the dermal fusion process. After a long telephone conversation I came away disappointed about the possibility of dermal fusion being a reality.

 

These are my impressions:

The person claiming to be Ryan Livingston is moderately intelligent and has extensive knowledge of certain aspects of business, as well as international patent laws. His knowledge of hair loss and effective treatment is very minimal, with a limited understanding at best. He comes across as being under the age of 30 and was very evasive and argumentative throughout the course of the conversation. Simple questions like, "How many patients have you performed this procedure on?" got a reply of " I am not at liberty to discuss that." Many other questions received the same reply, in many cases with a condescending hint of sarcasm and always with attitude. Throughout the entire conversation he continually assured me that he has developed the cure for baldness. He also made it clear by stating emphatically that he did not suffer with hair loss, that he was involved solely to make a profit.

 

What I found very telling was that he made a point to let me know that 6 years ago he just happened to come across an article or advertisement (I'm not sure which word he used) where the headline read "surgical cure for baldness." I found this very intriguing because he has never suffered from hair loss but saw the potential in making a profit from hair loss sufferers, without ever understanding the true psychology of hair loss. He then went on to tell me, that after receiving information about the Fleming Mayer Flap that was advertised in that article, he went on to develop two hair restoration procedures, one being non-surgical and one being surgical. He abandoned the non-surgical procedure to develop the surgical procedure which he claims is the exact technique that Dr. Ray Woods is performing today, only his procedure was able to provide more density. He claims to have abandoned bringing this procedure to market because he was able to create the "far superior dermal fusion process." But he cannot divulge to me how he stumbled across this new procedure that "will effectively end hair loss." However, he assures me that he is the inventor and that he alone with several of his "friends" who happen to be doctors and researchers developed and tested the procedure. I find this all to be a little far fetched, that a man with no medical background and "friends" who are doctors developed a procedure that many scientists have been working on diligently and relatively unsuccessfully for more than a decade, however, I was still hopeful.

 

If what this person was saying was true, then this is the biggest news since the polio vaccine. Mr. Livingston claims this procedure will be available mid 2002. I asked him why he has not spoken to the media about his incredible invention, every news organization across the world would cover this story. He replied that he indeed has been contacted by every news organization, but claims that it is too early to discuss his findings. I pointed out to him that Propecia and many other drugs and medical procedures are routinely covered by the media years before they are released. His reply was that he had certain concerns about his competition, including Dr. Cohen Gho. After this reply I reminded him that he offered The Bald Truth an exclusive interview that would introduce the public to the release of his dermal fusion process. I asked him why he would offer an exclusive interview on this earth shattering news to a relatively unknown media outlet like The Bald Truth radio show. His answer was that he was concerned that if I proclaimed dermal fusion as a hoax it would have a major impact on his years of research and his financial investment. I then went on to say that if a major news outlet like CNN or ABC covered this story and declared it to be factual, that what I had to say would be of little consequence. He had no reply.

 

I asked him for pictures... He cannot provide me with any. I asked him to talk to his patients, he said that would not be possible. I asked him to speak with his colleagues or anyone at the Selkirk Hair Clinic, he said that would not be possible and that the Selkirk Hair Clinic is not yet a clinic, but actually a "holding company," or a group of investors. I then asked him if in fact there were any doctors performing this procedure, he replied "there are no need for physicians with dermal fusion. The biopsy taken from the scalp is taken without drawing blood, therefore the entire procedure can be performed by nurses and/or qualified technicians. " I also made clear that it was vitally important that if dermal fusion will actually be available within the coming year, that he provide me with some evidence so that I might be able to convince vulnerable men and women not to undergo conventional hair transplant surgery, but to wait for this superior procedure to be available. His reply, it would be wonderful if we can save some of these people and I think what you are doing is admirable, however, this is all the information that I can provide at this time.

 

Friday June 22nd I received an e-mail from Ryan Livingston that he would call me on Monday. I have to admit that all weekend I was very excited about the possibility of not only providing all of you with new hope, but also putting an end to my own hair loss issues. I actually slept with both my cellphone and home phone to ensure that I would not miss this call. I am just as disappointed as all of you. My final thoughts on this matter is that at this point dermal fusion does not exist. Ryan Livingston has not invented the cure for hair loss, but for some reason he is intent on having us all believe that dermal fusion is a reality. There is a part of me that still wants to believe, but intellectually I know that this is a hoax.

 

If in fact there comes a point in time where Mr. Livingston is prepared to meet me, introduce me to patients and allow me to see his dermal fusion process I will be more than happy to eat a little crow.

 

 

Spencer Kobren

The Bald Truth

 

Voice Your Opinion In Our Dermal Fusion Forum or Vote in our Dermal Fusion Poll.

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Ancora su Dermal Fusion e Livingston:

 

Potential new source for Hair Multiplication?

 

Many of you may have heard about the efforts of a researcher named Cohen Gho who claims to have developed a way to create multiple follicles of hair in the laboratory from a single follicle of hair. Reports were that he planned to use this technique to provide an unlimited amount of "donor" hair for hair transplant patients. Current technology limits hair transplant donor hair to the available hair taken from the back of the patients own scalp, so such a technology would mean great things for this area of cosmetic surgery. Unfortunately despite periodic swells in interest and various announcements and promises by several sources claiming to be in contact with Gho, absolutely nothing has come to fruition leaving many enthusiasts discouraged and disappointed.

 

Last week we received an email from an inside source claiming to have heard that a surgeon in Canada might also be perfecting and marketing this technique. Below is the email. Please take it for what it is worth - nothing more than a rumor, but if you have any information regarding its validity, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Dear HairlossTalk:

 

In regards to Selkirk hair clinic, my wife brought home a piece of paper that she had scribbled some info on back in September. She said she read an article somewhere but she can't remember in what. I've been hounding her and she can't remember. What she does know is this. The guy who came up with the cure is RYAN LIVINGSTON and his company is the SELKIRK HAIR CLINIC. She thinks it's either in Nova Scotia, Canada or in Prince Edward Island, Canada. They won't be performing the procedure until 2002, so I don't know

what the wait is. I do know that the company has nothing to do with Dr. Gho and from what my wife says, Livingston has had pre patent protection on this for years. I was reading a little about Gho's procedure and Livingston's is a little different. It's better!

 

You go there and they take a piece of skin from your scalp and you leave. They put it in some sort of solution in an incubator and it grows. Several months later you return to the clinic and they add the hair to your head. The bonus is that the hair doesn't fall out like transplants. You leave the clinic with a full head of hair. They put the follicles into an electronic machine called a PRECISION JETTISON APPLICATOR and fuse the new hair cells into the existing hair cells that used to have hair. The procedure is called DERMAL FUSION and it costs $12,500 U.S. and is guaranteed for life. That's all I know and I'm continuing to search for Ryan Livingston. I called the directory assistance in Nova Scotia and in PEI but they didn't have a listing. I'll definitely contact you if I hear anything.

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